Letter #265: Julie Rice and Amy Griffin (2023)
Founder of Soul Cycle & Peoplehood and Founder of G9 Ventures | Building The New Female Ecosystem
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Julie Rice is the Cofounder of Peoplehood. Before starting Peoplehood, she was a Partner and Chief Brand Officer at WeWork. Prior to joining WeWork, Julie was the Cofounder and Co-CEO of SoulCycle, which she grew to over 80 studios and sold to Equinox over two transactions over 5 years (valuation undisclosed, but Julie reportedly took home over $90mn in the second transaction). Julie started her career in the entertainment industry, spending 20 years as a talent manager, most notably at Benny Medina’s Handprint Entertainment, where she discovered young artists such as Selma Blair, Ellen Pompeo, and Justin Long.
Amy Griffin is the Founder and Managing Partner of G9 Ventures, where she has invested in companies such as On (market cap: $17bn), Ro (valuation: $7bn), Oura (valuation: $5.2bn), SPANX (acquired: $1.2bn), Athletic Greens (valuation: $1.2bn), Cart.com (valuation: $1.2bn), Bumble (market cap: $1bn), and Chief (valuation: $1bn). She also helped negotiate Blackstone’s ~$900mn acquisition of Hello Sunshine and helped navigate Bumble through its IPO process. Before founding G9, Julie was a Sports Marketing and Olympic Manager at Sports Illustrated.
*KG Note: I have no affiliation with Amy, but I’ve learned a tremendous amount from her over the past decade. If you enjoy this letter and you’re interested in learning more about her story, her first book, a memoir titled “The Tell,” is coming out in two weeks.
I have not yet read the book, but I have pre-ordered one. Pre-orders are very important for authors, especially first-time authors, so if you’re at all interested in her story and thinking about purchasing a copy, or just want to support her, please consider pre-ordering one as well.
I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I do! I’ve learned a tremendous amount from both Julie and Amy over the years.
[Transcript and any errors are mine.]
Related Resources:
Women Founders/Operators
Women Investors
Mary Meeker Compilation (3,341 pages)
Sarah Tavel Compilation (300 pages)
Host: Why don't I start with you, and just have you talk a little bit about the ecosystem that you're seeing and what has changed in the last five years and sort of reinforcing itself.
Amy Griffin: Well, thank you for having us. I remember this summer we had dinner, and all of a sudden we were having conversations with women on one side of our table, and all of a sudden Mike sort of ventured over. He was like, What are you guys talking about? He's like, I like this side of the room. We were talking about deals, we were talking about sourcing, we were talking about founders. And he was like, I'm going to stay on this side of the room. So thank you for having us. I think that's how this all came about. I would say that at G9 ventures, we believe in people first. We believe in the founders that we back. If I look at what I'm doing in the next 10 years, I have to say to my partner, Anna, when we finish this investment, do we want to have dinner with this partner in 10 years? Do we want to go and find this person in 10 years and say, Let's have dinner with them. We believe in the founders, we believe in brands, we believe in category-defining brands. And there's no one better that has done that than Julie Rice. There's no one better in the world. So I think Julie Rice is an example of someone who I've worked with professionally that has also become an incredibly close friend. So when you talk about that circle of how it all happens, Julie is the person that--she is my first call anytime I ever have a question for a founder or I need to connect her with an operator in terms of how to build a business. And so for me, what I do is just simple, because it goes back to relationships, and it starts the very beginning of the simple thread of how you create a relationship. And that's how you build a business. And Julie's the best at it.
Julie Rice: Wow. To be perfectly honest with you, I didn't even really know what an entrepreneur was. It certainly wasn't what I was trying to be. I had a totally different career. I worked in the movie business. I was fairly successful. I moved from California back to New York to be near my family, and I just noticed that there was nothing like the way that I exercised in LA in New York. I missed my friends, I missed social, I missed distressing, I missed doing it to feel better in my body. And there was just a hole in the market, and I couldn't get over the fact that there was this thing that I needed that didn't exist. And I will say, as an entrepreneur, my business partner Elizabeth and I, we really build products that we want to use. But cut to--I didn't know how to do it. We went and we found a space on Craigslist, and we signed the lease--a five year sublet on an old dance studio in the back of a building--we went across the street to Starbucks, we wrote our business model on a napkin that is framed in Elizabeth's office. We figured out that if we saw 75 people a day, at $27 a bike, we would have enough money to keep the lights on, pay for the bikes--which it turns out your rent--pay for the towels--which it turns out you rent, if you only have 1300 square feet, and a little bit of money left over to pay for some child care. And it's interesting--Amy has created this conference that she's put together in the summer, which I'd like to say it used to be a little conference, now you have to RSVP really quick if you want to be able to go.
Amy Griffin: By the way, I also like to start with the fact that we don't have a gender mandate. We work with men every day. But it just so happens that I have a female perspective, and I think that's a major--there's a massive economic opportunity to lean into that and say, Where are those white spaces that we're not seeing? So when I find a founder like Laura Modi, who I literally chased down a hallway and said, Laura, I want to be in your round, and she's like, We're full. I was like, No, no, no--I want to be part of this. I'm going to help you build this business. How are you going to help me? I don't know. I'm going to make connections to people, I'm going to show up for you, I'm going to do what friends do: I'm going to create a relationship with you.
Host: Is there an intangible benefit to the community, whether it be of mothers or of women, finding something that should be better, that is missing in society, that's missing in a city, that's in a service, and then you, as an investor, relating to that and realizing the potential scale of it, and the power of it, the importance of it--is that part of this?
Amy Griffin: I don't think it's the male is missing it, but I just think it's the lens through which I see the world. And also, we don't invest in women to be part of a small women-focused ecosystem where we say, We invest in women businesses, that's so great! Because it doesn't help anyone if we don't invest in businesses that we've heavily diligenced and that do well and have exits so we can say, No, look, this business has succeeded, this founder is going to go on and start another business. My partner and I say two things--I wake up every morning and I say, Oh my gosh, I feel like I haven't serviced some of the businesses we're invested in well--I want to make sure we're helping them find that next CFO or whatever role they're looking for. And my partner says, No, no, no--I want to make sure the diligence we do for these other businesses we're going to invest in has to be at tip-top shape so that we know what we're doing whenever we invest. And I'd say that we're women investing in women who are solving, inherently, problems that women are inherently solving.
Julie Rice: I think that it's interesting, because I think sort of the more famous female CEOs and founders that are out there are celebrities standing in front of cosmetic companies, which is amazing, or--we typically look at a lot of products that are women-centric, with women founders and whatever. But it's fascinating, because when you really look across industries, women are leading and finding businesses in all of the areas--I was just looking at the--Fortune came out with their 100 most powerful women in business, and the cover of it is Mira Murati, who's the Chief Technology Officer at OpenAI. That's not typically what we think about when we think about powerful women in business, or the CEO of CVS. And so I think women are everywhere in industries now. I think they're finding great companies, I think they're leading great companies. And I think it's amazing. And I will say, as a person who really didn't have role models so many years ago, it's incredibly inspiring for young women, for old women, to think about, and to see women that are leading companies like this, and have that image of that something that is an available profession.
Host: And when you think about that next generation, are you seeing kids coming out of school who want to be part of either the businesses you're in, the investment process you're running--is that something that you're seeing that's becoming really aspirational? And you just touched on it, Julie, so I just want to follow that thread.
Julie Rice: Well it's interesting. All of a sudden, entrepreneur is a category that kids seem to be talking about being, which is not something I ever remember thinking that that was an option or knew what that was. But I think when you have role models like Whitney Wolfe out there, who is on college campuses, creating a presence, who is a female young CEO who young women can look at and say, Wow, that's what I want to be when I grow up. It's pretty amazing. And I think it really allows kids to dream in a different way. I think it allows them to think about the way that they want their education to look in a different way. When you start to really back it up--we both have 18 year olds that are freshmen in colleges, and I can really say that what we were looking for, even in next level education, thinking about what she might want to be next, was entirely different than what I thought about when I looked at colleges, and I think that's really because of a lot of the young people that are out there.
Amy Griffin: I guess I'd just add to that that I feel that when we meet founders, you can know someone's a leader in about three minutes. And you can figure out--when I have founders that sit and tell me that they know they have the solutions to all of their problems, they know they're going to have a team of three, but they can do it all, but keep costs low, I think, Really? Well I can't do that. So I love it when a founder comes to me and says, I don't know how to do this. I hired someone that's 10x smarter than I am. Because that's how I've seen businesses get built. And so I find those insightful leaders that have sort of had that self introspective knowledge to say, I gotta build a team. So you can tell the team builders and the leaders really quickly, really quickly--and that separates the differences.
Host: We talked a little bit, when we spoke earlier this week, about the importance of public company boards, the visibility of women participation in large global public companies, and some of the initial barriers that are maybe unintended. Is that something that you see is important in the overall dynamic--just looking forward 20, 30 years?
Amy Griffin: Well, Jules talk about that, the idea that--Julie joining the Weight Watchers board, she had incredible experience after building Soul Cycle. But I think there's a barrier to entry, and we--Julie and I talk about this all the time, that we've got to have more women on boards. We've got to have more women on boards who are then making decisions to bring women on as CEOs and CEOs and CMOs. When you don't have that representation in the room, you're not going to have this position filled by women to have women's perspectives in the room. But a lot of the times, these boards are being filled by women who have a finance background, and so the pool has been very limited. And normally, when--I have another friend in the room who said, You've talked about how it's oftentimes very competitive with women and in jobs, and you think they don't help each other out. Well, I think a lot of times you're talking about the investment banking world where there were probably two women in the room, so they were competing with each other for a spot, right? And now I just--I think a quarter of my job is actually finding women to be on boards. People call me that I'm not invested in their companies all the time and say, Can you help me find a board member? And it's one of my favorite things to do, right? We talk about it all the time.
Julie Rice: 100%. Look, when I stepped onto the board at Weight Watchers, I have to say--I've been in a lot of rooms where I've felt like an imposter, but I've never had so much imposter syndrome as stepping into a public company boardroom, especially since I'm sort of always the half of the building team that does a lot of the creative, a lot of the innovation. I'm not usually the spreadsheet. So it was definitely super intimidating. And I can say, it took me a really long time to find my voice in the board room, to really understand that the ideas and perspective that I could bring to that board actually could change the product and really move the needle for the investors and shareholders. And I will say that the composition of our board, especially that board, has changed a lot over the few years that I've been on it. Lot more women on the board now. And it's fascinating. And the company has really dramatically shifted. We're now going sort of into clinical weight loss and weight loss medications and all of that stuff. And what I will say is that, 80% of spending power in households is from women. Most households are spending most of what they have available on decisions made by women. If I sit around a board table and give insights about what my friends are buying or eating or wearing or doing, you can't really underestimate the value that those insights give to a big company, because the truth is, that's what people are doing, and that's how they're buying. And so it's been really fascinating, and I do think that those perspectives are very, very important. And I think boards have really been weighted in one direction, and so it's been a fascinating experience for me. And I really do think more women on boards will be something that is really helpful.
Amy Griffin: And more women on boards that don't necessarily have a finance background.
Julie Rice: Correct.
Amy Griffin: I think when board construction happens--I think that's something I'm super interested in--and the leadership--the way people create their boards, how leadership evolves in that you have to pick people that you can call. I know, for instance, a CEO--Jenn Hyman, I know, calls a board member, I think, every single day, a different board member, to ask for advice. And I think I've had other founders come to me and say, I want board members who I can call every--I need a different person for a different thing. And so I think board construction is just super important. And if you don't have a woman's voice and a woman's perspective on your board, then you're missing out on a large part of the population.
Julie Rice: 100%.
Host: Well, I've lived that. We serve very large global families, and being hired is, you have a husband and a wife and their children. And so at least 50% of the decision is the wife's to make--
Amy Griffin: 50?
Host: I said, At least. And there's a lot that comes with that. So then if you show up in a room with four men to try to present, it's sort of--first of all, you're sending a signal.
Amy Griffin: Can you imagine at the Blackstone boardroom when you had the Spanx presentation by the Investment Committee being--talking about Spanx? Do you think that Spanx would have gotten through the Investment Committee had there not been women in the room? I've been told that there were--the men backed away from the table. And therefore, now Spanx is now a Blackstone company.
Julie Rice: There's a Harvard study where they looked at 16 traits of leaders. And women actually scored higher on 12 out of the 16 good traits that make up leaders. And you would think, if we were revealing what those traits were, they would be empathy, they would be supportiveness--and they're actually not. They're initiative-taking, driving for results, and all of those things, which, I'm sure was going on in your board meeting.
Host: There was. That’s for sure. There's certain industries where, either because of--you mentioned brands and public faces that people know, that--sort of the stories of success. Are there any industries that, very quietly, women are really driving change and having great success? And maybe some less obvious reasons as to why that might be?
Amy Griffin: I think women are driving change in every industry. I was talking to a friend, a woman, Marne Levine--if you know her, she was at Meta for many, many years--last night. And she said, Gosh, Amy--she's no longer at Meta--and she said, I'm so excited to be out in the world and see what other people are doing, and meet founders and see what's happening. Because she's had her head down for so long that--I mean, I think you just don't hear about a lot of those that aren't in maybe the consumer space, they're not talking about their brands, they're not trying to brand build, they have their heads down, they're focused with their teams, and they're just building. But there's a lot of great women. Look at--super excited about Lidiane Jones, who's moving over into the CEO role at Bumble to partner with Whitney Wolfe, who's moving into Executive Chair. And she's come from Slack--and a lot of people haven't talked about Lidiane Jones, but she's been running been running Slack. She's incredible. A Brazilian woman.
Host: What are some of the core threads of success that you see women running the business are just more effective at really fine tuning what a brand needs to be.
Julie Rice: To me, a brand is obviously really how you make somebody feel. People want to matter. That is really my great thesis in life. And making them feel like they matter, and matter to your business, is, to me, the most important thing that we can do in any business that we are creating. And I do think that women are especially good at that. I think women are good listeners. I think women do have a lot of EQ that allows them to connect with employees differently, to connect with customers differently. I think that women can be flexible and have less of an ego sometimes. And I do think that that is also great because of the point of not being the smartest person in the room, being able to be agile, take advice from somebody else around you, all in the pursuit of just making for the greater good. It feels like that is something that women are very capable at. And I just think that--again, when you're really building a brand, I think that you need to lead in a way that allows your employees to feel like they matter, so that they can treat customers like they matter. And I think women are very equipped to do that. think that they can they can slow down a little bit to go faster.
Amy Griffin: I mean, everything just sort of--same thing she said. It goes back to relationships. I equate my investing style also to how I am a mother and I am a wife. And it's the exact same principles that I feel like I do every day with my founders, that I do with my children. You forgot your backpack! You got to call so and so. I didn't like how that email was written. It is the exact same muscle that I've used over and over and over again. So it's just kind of simple in that way, in that it's relationship-based, and it's parenting and dating.
Julie Rice: Elizabeth and I used to say in the beginning at Soul Cycle, when we were making decisions on anything from what kind of healthcare we were going to take for our employees to different policies with our customers, we used to say, Is this--we have four daughters between us, and we used to say, whenever we looked at a decision, Is this a place where we would send our daughters to work here? And that's how we would make the decision. And you know what? In the beginning, when we had no money, we took the better healthcare. Or when somebody was running late and we had a cancelation policy at five o'clock, and they called us at 5:50 to tell us that their train was late and they weren't going to make it, we credited their class back. Because those were decisions that we would have wanted somebody to make for our daughters. And I think it served us really well in business.
Host: And being intentional about it. Inclusivity, collaboration. But being very intentional about--and everything is a signal, in terms of--including in a meeting or in a conversation or in an email thread. If you're not taking the time, take the time to be inclusive, and to be very intentional about it. Because otherwise you really risk sending a signal that you likely don't intend to.
Amy Griffin: Thank you for intentionally inviting us.
Julie Rice: Absolutely.
Host: Very happy. Thank you for coming.
Julie Rice: Thank you very much.
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Wrap-up
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